Wont start after 080 spacer put in

[horndog]

Well so far so bad, put a 080 spacer on my bike and once it all went back together it wont go. All I get are some pretty impressive backfires. Checked and rechecked the valve timing a zillion times (compensated for the spacer by moving the crank gear 5 teeth forward. Stock cams are dialled in at 105/105

I did a basic spark check and 1 in 3 times when i hit the starter I get a spark. 

I had moved the ECU and battery to the front of the bike and extended some wiring before fitting the spacer and the bike ran ok.
I have gone through the whole harness again and checked with another bike the ECU pinouts are correct , Cam sensor and ECU are working as I have swapped them with another bike. I did not swap the crank sensor as I did a voltage test on it and it appears to be creating volts the same as my mates bike. I am thinking now that I need to actually put my crank sensor on his bike to test it.

Any suggestions as I am all out of ideas other than putting a stock harness back on. If I can get one that is.
 

[DropBusa]

its turning and backfiring?

[kawaking]

why do you have to turn the crank gear 5 teeth !   just trying to understand !

and the 105 /105 you did in relation ship to tdc right ?  just want to understand the concept of the 5 teeth !

[WerxRacing]

re check that timing for sure. also check wires u lengthend. make sure all is soldered & same length for resistence factor..

[horndog]

All wires are soldered.
Turning and backfiring
Moved crank gear 5 teeth to compensat for spacer advancing cam timing. allows you to retain standard timing marks. best explained here http://azbiketech.yuku.com/topic/1095

105/105 is in relation to TDC yes.

[kawaking]

sorry but I read what that guy wrote about cam timing and that last post what he gave you is bull ! the engine dont care how you postition the starter gear ! it has a marking on it to help you determine tdc when installing stock cams that is the only time correct postition is vital !

[kawaking]

his theory on the 5 tooth is correct but it is best to use it with stock cams !!!!! not to get confused !

[Nukedog]

All wires are soldered.
Turning and backfiring
Moved crank gear 5 teeth to compensat for spacer advancing cam timing. allows you to retain standard timing marks. best explained here http://azbiketech.yuku.com/topic/1095

105/105 is in relation to TDC yes.

If you do not degree them with a wheel then you will never get t running right.   

[horndog]

I have tried out my harness on a mates bike and it dont work. This is a kind of a relief as now I know that something as gone a-wry with my attempt at a rewire even though I was sure nothing had changed from before and after I did the spacer but there you go.

So now the hunt is on to find the offending wire(s) and with this I have a new plan to move the atmosphere and vacuum solenoids to the front of the bike with the ECU. (I figure I cant break it anymore than it already is.) I will also dump the tip sensor and replace it with a 62K Ohm resistor.
 

[DropBusa]

Good job on the troubleshoot, keep us posted brother.

[sportbikeryder]

Post your opening and closing numbers as well as if their location relative to TDC (BTDC,ATDC,BBDC,ABDC). You may be using the "formula" incorrectly for degreeing your cams and they could be 10+ degrees off, causing your cam sensor to be incorrectly triggered.
John

[horndog]

Found a problem today that might be my issue. I noticed that my nuetral light wasnt working I had noticed this previously but didnt pay it much attention at the time. I traced it to the flasher/sidestand relay. blue wire goes in and the earth is good from the GPS. Blue wire with black trace comes out of relay to nuetral light and the earth is gone. From what I have read in the manual, this will lock out the ignition. I did check that the coils have power but I am not sure if this will still have a negative effect somehow on the ECU. It didnt seem to be stopping the sidestand lockout from switching the relay.
I tested the relay previouslt by simply raising and lowering it with the key on and hearing it click.

I think I will still be chasing up another harness anyway and turn the original into a long term project.

[sportbikeryder]

The sidestand, tip over, ignition resistor, neutral, and clutch switch will all prevent it from running (not sure about hte intermittent spark though).

Did you degree the cams, with a defgree wheel and indicator) or just rely on moving the sprocket?

[horndog]

I checked the dial in with a wheel and dial gauge to be sure. I have dialled cams before so am mostly confident I got it right.

I have bought another harness with relay now so I should have that in a week or two.

[kawaking]

hope that solves it ! how come you have not tried your friends harnass on your bike to know for sure ? because on your friends bike it did not show the same issues of backfiring ! that is what I find so strange !

[OzBooster]

hopefully an intermittant connection that was properly disconnected in the move.

don't know that i would move the sensors that far , may change there response time .

You converting the atm pressure sensor to a larger range unit for the ecu editor ??

[horndog]

Found the problem guys, I dont know how I did it but I managed to mix up a couple of the wires in the ECU connectors. Switched the brown and tan wires (cam position and atmos sensor) also had placed the tip sensor wire one pin to left of where it should have been. I did not even think that I had touched the connectors whilst the head was off but my short term memory is shot so  .........

Thanks for the input from everyone, its been a long couple of weeks.

Now off to finish the plumbing and gauges and ge me some boost.

[kawaking]

always nice to hear when somebody solves the problem ! it is a learning experience for off all of us ! 

[buzard]

doesn't stock setting on the cams, but rollong the gear back 5 teeth put you at 105/105? i didn't think you needed to do anything to the cams (assuming early model busa crank)? why would you need to drill the cam sprockets? did you check it with a degree wheel and dial indicator?

[smithabusa]

curious if you checked them and got 105/105 with the 5 teeth rotation of the lower gear or if you are just assuming its that?

Last weekend I pulled my wife's 05 busa motor and checked stock caming timing, and its not 105/105.  Ive read more times than I can count that 105/105 is stock cam timing, damn internet LOL

[Chris Horoho]

he degreed them with adjustable cam sprockets
the problem was found and fixed

[horndog]

Thanks Pinky, I found the issue was actually a wiring fault caused by yours truly
Had too many things on the go and got myself all confused. I dialled the cams to 105/105, I am not sure what the stock figures are. Hope I didnt mislead anyone there.

The 5 tooth method on the crank gear seems to have worked a treat. Found it very hard to get my head round it for a while though. It seems alot to move the gear for a 2.5 degree change at the cam but there you go.

Thanks for all the input.

[Gixer]

Please guys, has anyone a picture as it should be placed ctock camshafts after a 0.08 inch spacer installed?
I have a problem with backfie, but at 3 or 4 PSI :-(
What else can be a cause of backfire?
Thanks a lot!